What is the next best thing to Trados?
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| 话题中的页数: < [1 2 3 4] > | | 用户 | 论题张贴者: rebeccalyne What is the next best thing to Trados? |
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Jerzy Czopik 
德国
Local time: 16:46
  正式会员 (自2003)
Polish波兰语译成German德语
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版主 | | Word ist not alpha and omega in translation | Jul 19 |
What do you do, if a customer asks you to deliver in QuarkXPress?
You say you cannot, because all you can do is deliver in Word.
So the customer has to prepare the file for you: export the text from QXP, convert to a format readable for Word, than convert it back to QXP import format, import in QXP and do the post processing. These are "all other things".
I mean you need someone who knows exactly what your needs are.
With Trados you can deliver what customer needs, not vice versa.
Sorry for not putting myself clear.
And it shall not sound somehow depreciating, forgive me if it did.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
美国
Local time: 07:46
会员
English英语译成German德语
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| | Direct clients don't even know what "a Trados" is ;-) | Jul 19 |
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
if you wanna limit you to be just a supplier for translation agencies, who do all other things for you.
In such case all my arguments are meaningles. Similar to a car - just buy what you like. User or unused, doesn't matter.
But if you want to provide more than this, you will need to make a step forward. So simple a car will not be enough to use it as a taxi. You will need at least one with four doors. |
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Hm.
- If agencies do so much for you, why do you have to buy a tool to ease their work?
- Your direct client most likely has never heard the words "Trados" or "CAT tool" before. They want a brilliant translation, that's all.
| | | | Natalie
波兰
Local time: 16:46
 正式会员 (自2002)
English英语译成Russian俄语
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版主 |
Maybe due to my specialization, I don't know, nobody asked me to translate files in Quark  However, you may be surprized to learn that Metatexis has an option of working with Quark (as well as PageMaker, FrameMaker, Interleaf, Ventura, InDesign an other file formats). So Quark files would neither convince me for buying Trados.
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
德国
Local time: 16:46
正式会员 (自2003)
Polish波兰语译成German德语
+ ...
版主 | | Direct clients do also very well know CAT | Jul 19 |
Let us speak more general about CAT in conjunction with direct clients.
And a lot of them do know and use CAT tools.
Not all of course.
For those, who don't I take CAT also, because it does ease my work.
As for Metatexis - indeed I do not know the options of this software. Does it also provide me with tools for extracting text from nearly all formats? If yes, than it is great - congrats. If not, than it is not an option for me.
QuarkXPress, InDesign, Interleaf/Quicksilver, Pagemaker and Framemaker do play for me at least the same role as Word, Excel or Powerpoint. Most probably due to my working fields
| | | | Selcuk Akyuz
土耳其
Local time: 17:46
 Partial member
English英语译成Turkish土耳其语
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版主 |
Natalie wrote:
Maybe due to my specialization, I don't know, nobody asked me to translate files in Quark However, you may be surprized to learn that Metatexis has an option of working with Quark (as well as PageMaker, FrameMaker, Interleaf, Ventura, InDesign an other file formats). So Quark files would neither convince me for buying Trados. |
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Transit XV, Deja Vu and Across can also be used for QuarkXpress files.
AFAIK Trados does not directly support Quark files, another program - CopyFlow Gold is required.
Transit XV has additional filters (sold separately) for Quark documents.
But Deja Vu and Across have direct support for QuarkXpress, no additional filters required.
| | | | Claudia Alvis
美国
Local time: 09:46
会员
English英语译成Spanish西班牙语
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Jerzy Czopik wrote:
What do you do, if a customer asks you to deliver in QuarkXPress?
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Metatexis, Transit, Déjà Vu can also work with QuarkXPress files. Trados is not the only CAT-tool that can work with different formats. It's not even the best. When it comes to reliability, features and cost-effectiveness, there are better options (the Professional edition of Transit is the best I've seen but at $2000, it's a heavy investment). Trados is, however, the most advertised.
I deal with technical translations and tagged files, besides I like using and reusing TMs and Glossaries so a CAT-tool is a must for me. But Trados+Multiterm is the single most frustrating piece of software I own. I know for a fact that many translators decided to buy Trados because it is indeed useful and the whole conversion process is cumbersome, but still use other CAT-tools on a regular basis (I have Trados and I still use Metatexis) because Trados is a mammoth of problems and bugs.
Natalie wrote:
and - most important! - you can always count on Hermann's help, if needed. |
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I'd add that help is rarely needed with Metatexis, unlike Trados.
SDL Trados seems to think that customer service is important only if you're willing to pay $100 a year for the honor. Otherwise, they won't even let you contact them. ProZ's forums are a million times more useful than the manuals or their knowledge base. And I'm sure Ralf and Jerzy have helped more people with Trados-related problems than SDL (I thank them both for that). When it comes to customer service, SDL Trados is the single worst company I've ever encountered.
Besides, even though Trados can be very helpful, it seems that SDL's loyalty is with agencies and outsources rather than with the translators (see this recent thread). But SDL is a business so that's their prerogative.
I'm also a heavy user of Trados and that's why I can't recommend it.
 
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| Nicole Schnell
美国
Local time: 07:46
会员
English英语译成German德语
+ ...
| | What do you do if a customer asks you to deliver in QuarkXPress | Jul 19 |
You have it done at a local copy shop and charge your client extra. This covers:
- typesetting costs for your client (who probably doesn't even speak your language and might not even notice if the headline is upside down).
- the result has been checked by the translator. Best results!
To be really, really honest: This is the safest way to take care of projects that involve serious layouting. No CAT tool will produce a perfect layout automatically.
Clients love it.
| | | | Viktoria Gimbe
加拿大
Local time: 10:46
正式会员 (自2005)
English英语译成French法语
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I am a Trados user, and I have tried other CAT tools as well. However, the only one I actually bought is Trados. After the extremely frustrating experience I've had (and still have) with it, I became wary of CAT tools in general. That explains why I never again invested in any CAT tool.
The pros of Trados: it lets you translate documents in an editing environment that fits on your screen and you don't have to toggle between windows to do it. You can reuse your previously translated segments. You can also search them - but Trados' search functions are unbelievably poor (for example, a translation unit has to be at least a 30% match to show up anywhere - this already messes up any search and replace operation). It produces TMX TMs. It can handle a variety of popular file formats. However, all of the above is true for just about any ol' CAT tool.
Cons: Ahhhh... where should I begin? Buggy. Really buggy. Extremely buggy. So buggy, and at the same time, user documentation and support are so bad, that you often stumble upon vague error codes that are not documented anywhere - and even Trados support people sometimes only shrug at these, not knowing what else to do. Keyboard shortcuts are not customizable and not optimized for laptops. Some confusing information in help files and user guides. Increasingly hard to use in the Word editing environment, to which SDL simply replies that you should use TagEditor instead. However, for a company who does business in the translation industry, they seem to be too unfamiliar with the craft of translation to realize that some documents are simply not fit to be translated in TagEditor. Slow. Sometimes so slow, you just feel like translating without a CAT tool. User-unfriendly interface. Lots of useless settings that they are unable to explain - lots of basic, necessary features that have never been implemented, despite users constantly asking for them (on some documents, still can't figure out how to produce superscript and non-breaking spaces in TagEditor). Crashes often at clean-up. Soaks up RAM like there's no tomorrow. And the list goes on... However, most of the above doesn't apply to most other CAT tools, including the free ones.
Perfect compatibility may not exist, but perfect compatibility isn't needed in most cases. Often, the ability to produce level 1 TMX TMs is all you need - and the majority of CAT tools already offer that.
Oh, and the extra work that is needed for certain jobs is precisely what agencies take their cut for. So, why is it the translator who is required to learn to use buggy software, pay for it, and put in extra work? How hard would it be for an agency to align the source and target documents and create a TM themselves when they work with a translator who doesn't use their CAT tool? Considering the profit they make...
Also, if the main point of using a CAT tool is to help the translator, I really wonder why the agencies are requiring it... It's like forcing me to take vitamins when I say I'm fine without them. There must be some other reason why so many agencies require the use of Trados... like CAT rate schemes, that is, rebates on our work. Can somebody contradict this? Does anybody work with an agency who requires the use of Trados AND pays the full rate for every single word?
[Edited at 2008-07-20 03:27]
| | | | Nicole Schnell
美国
Local time: 07:46
会员
English英语译成German德语
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| | This sums it up beautifully | Jul 20 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
Oh, and the extra work that is needed for certain jobs is precisely what agencies take their cut for. So, why is it the translator who is required to learn to use buggy software, pay for it, and put in extra work? How hard would it be for an agency to align the source and target documents and create a TM themselves when they work with a translator who doesn't use their CAT tool?
Also, if the main point of using a CAT tool is to help the translator, I really wonder why the agencies are requiring it... |
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There is nothing to add.
| | | | John Paul Weir
爱尔兰
Local time: 15:46
正式会员 (自2007)
Spanish西班牙语译成English英语
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| | CAT tools and 'cat' tools (see below) | Jul 20 |
| When it comes to customer service, SDL Trados is the single worst company I've ever encountered. |
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That just about sums it all up.
Apart from that, I could have reproduced Victoria's entire post, but there's no point: you can read it all in first person for yourself.
I am a Trados user too, BTW.
And in my part of the world, 'CAT' is a euphemism for rubbish.
[Edited at 2008-07-20 02:17]
| | | | Amy Duncan
巴西
Local time: 13:46
正式会员 (自2005)
Portuguese葡萄牙语译成English英语
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| | No one has mentioned... | Jul 20 |
...that Trados is not Mac compatible....
Amy
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| Viktoria Gimbe
加拿大
Local time: 10:46
正式会员 (自2005)
English英语译成French法语
+ ...
| | Okay, let's get constructive | Jul 20 |
First off, I am in favor of CAT tools which may come at a hefty price for the agency, but whose light version, fully capable of handling the client's files and containing all necessary functions, is free of charge to the translator. Across is one of them, and it works great. There are agencies using it, and I have been contacted through Across's online directory for work. The only investment in this case is some time to learn to use the software. There is also Idiom and ForeignDesk that use this model of having agencies pay for the software and allowing translators to use it free of charge. Those who require for work to be carried out using a specific CAT tool bear the charges - makes perfect sense.
Other than that, some free and low-cost CAT tools that seem to make most of their users happy are Wordfast, OmegaT and MetaTexis. I am probably omitting a few...
I have lately seen many positive comments on the Heartsome line of products - I hear it's Mac-compatible.
Start by looking up all of these, and the few more you may stumble upon. If you don't mind investing large sums of money in steady CAT tools that have useful features, you can also take a look at DéjàVu and Transit.
Download the free CAT tools and take some time to learn to use them. Not in order to find out which one you will stick with, but rather to get a feel for how CAT tools work and how pertinent they are to your translation activities. Once you get a feel for CAT tools, you may want to start trying out the for-cost ones, one at a time. Most have a free, 30-day trial version. Make sure you download them one at a time - most have a rather steep learning curve, and if you get two or three trial versions at once, by the time you are ready to move on to the second or third trial, it will most likely be expired. Once you've done all this, you will be in a better position to decide which one suits you best, and you will have better chances at making the right purchase right from the start, and not wasting your money on something that you can't take sensible advantage of.
Finally, let me congratulate you on not giving in right away to all those banner ads all over the Internet, and asking questions first. Many of us just went for Trados, thinking it is the best, and regretted our purchases soon after.
All the best!
[Edited at 2008-07-20 03:47]
| | | | The Misha
美国
Local time: 10:46
English英语译成Russian俄语
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| | Since when did this become a geek's job? | Jul 20 |
Nicole is right, it should be primarily - and has been before - a matter of language command and style, rather than computer formats and CAT tools. For some translations (the ones Nicole once called "an exercise in tedium" - bravo, I love that!) CAT tools do matter big time though.
Personally, I do not do those. I specialize in finance and legal, and those are almost NEVER an exercise in tedium. Whatever few automation options usually available can be easily taken care of with the MS Word's Search and Replace functions.
As hard and intellectually challenging as my usual fare is, I try to console myself with the fact that I am less likely to develop Alzheimer's down the road. Oh, and I don't usually have to give repetition discounts. Those are pure gravy.
| | | | Williamson
英国
Local time: 15:46
Flemish佛兰芒语译成English英语
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1. There are synergies between Proz.com and Sdlx. Since when does one have to be Sdlx-certified to be able to translate? Don't know Polish, but have SdlxTrados and will translate. My customer will be happy with my results .
2. Some sectors or niches have never heard of CATs. Or in some sectors, translation is only a drop in the ocean of the cost of a project.
Indeed, all they want is a correct translation. If they don't ask, I am not going to tell them them.
3. Why give discounts for the use of CATs? Do people in the legal professions give discounts when the use the same words time and again.
Who benefits from CATs: If you aks for a word-rate: Translation-agencies who can increase their mark-up on the work of the freelance translators.
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The translation workplace 
