| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | What effect is the new verb "to impact" having on the English language? Thread poster: Tom in London
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Tom in London wrote: Patrice wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why people use 'around' when 'about' has always done perfectly well. Examples please.
@Tom: "Issues and discussions around networked learning" http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-0-387-35499-6_19
https://support.airtasker.com/hc/en-us/sections/200211520-Technical-questions-around-Airtasker
@Patrice: I believe it could be from faulty translations based on the French use of "autour". Take a phrase like "conversations autour du vin". The French conveys the idea of "wine and related topics". I have had some clients take issue with simply translating it as "about".
Regarding the original question: we've been flogging this dead horse since I was in high school. The verb is in the OED. Although I tend to use "impact" as a noun, the verb no longer sets my teeth on edge.
As upsetting language developments go, I'm much sadder to see "whom" drift into oblivion.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:18
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
SBlack wrote:
......
As upsetting language developments go, I'm much sadder to see "whom" drift into oblivion.
I take all the points previously made (and the misuse of "around" in place of "about" really does annoy me, as anything stupid always annoys me).
The question arises: why are we (or some of us) "sad" to see particular terms drifting into oblivion, or the adoption of particular terms in new ways? Are we trying to hold back a linguistic tide? Or are we trying to conserve and uphold the beauty of language?
[Edited at 2016-10-12 09:34 GMT]
| | | | Paul Cohen 
Greenland
Local time: 03:18
German to English
+ ...
| Language changes | Oct 12, 2016 |
Tom, the use of 'impact' as a verb also sets me on edge, but language changes. It's the way of the world. I don't think one social group has a monopoly on impacting (cringe! wince!) the English language. I also wonder when people started talking about the importance of 'growing' your business. Growing tomatoes, fine. But a business?
What sounds like jargon to one generation sounds like everyday bread 'n' butter language to the next one. You don't have to embrace it, but it's basica... See more Tom, the use of 'impact' as a verb also sets me on edge, but language changes. It's the way of the world. I don't think one social group has a monopoly on impacting (cringe! wince!) the English language. I also wonder when people started talking about the importance of 'growing' your business. Growing tomatoes, fine. But a business?
What sounds like jargon to one generation sounds like everyday bread 'n' butter language to the next one. You don't have to embrace it, but it's basically a law of nature, like evolution. You can 'have an impact', but changes will continue, with us or without us. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Interesting question | Oct 13, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote: SBlack wrote:
......
As upsetting language developments go, I'm much sadder to see "whom" drift into oblivion. I take all the points previously made (and the misuse of "around" in place of "about" really does annoy me, as anything stupid always annoys me). The question arises: why are we (or some of us) "sad" to see particular terms drifting into oblivion, or the adoption of particular terms in new ways? Are we trying to hold back a linguistic tide? Or are we trying to conserve and uphold the beauty of language? [Edited at 2016-10-12 09:34 GMT]
That is a very good question. Language is indeed beautiful when it is spoken and written well. I think we are more vigilant than many, simply by virtue of our profession. We learn strict rules at a young age and wield them like a square and compass. Deviating from them feels fundamentally wrong. Perhaps I'm more open to variants since my Canadian English is occasionally questioned here in Europe. Have you ever been instructed to translate into North American English? I wonder if it would rankle you.  I get asked to write in "UK English" all the time, and I can assure you that "aluminium" feels every bit as wrong to me as "I seen". However, I do not question its validity.
[Edited at 2016-10-13 17:55 GMT]
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| Cultured linguistic elite | Oct 13, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
What interests me is the process by which languages change by vulgarisation "from the bottom up" rather than through innovation on the part of a cultured linguistic elite. Do both happen? To what extent should these processes be resisted/accepted?
That is the case in France, with the Académie française, whose members are known as "the Immortals". In my opinion, the language has not evolved as much as English has in 400 years. I can see a play by Molière and understand almost all of it, unlike Shakespeare.
On the other hand, is reigning in the language a good or a bad thing? France is notorious for dragging its feet on "le masculin l'emporte", or questioning how female ministers should be properly addressed (some still insisting on Madame le Président, for instance http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2014/10/07/01002-20141007ARTFIG00324-madame-la-presidente-ou-le-president-quelle-est-la-regle.php). Question solved in Quebec, Switzerland, and Belgium in the eighties and nineties. http://information.tv5monde.com/terriennes/feminisation-des-mots-la-france-en-retard-22877
Maybe some language issues only seem obvious to "mere mortals".
Edited for typo
[Edited at 2016-10-13 12:13 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-10-13 17:59 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-10-13 18:02 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:18
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
[quote]SBlack wrote:
... Language is indeed beautiful when it is spoken and written well. I think we are more vigilant than many, simply by virtue of our profession. We learn strict rules at a young age and wield them like a square and compass.
That is well put, although I don't agree that there's anything strict or constraining about knowing the rules of any discipline and applying them. The ability to use language skilfully (like the ability to play the piano skilfully) is not a limitation but a liberation; we are enabled to express ourselves (and there is no greater liberation).
Deviating from them feels fundamentally wrong.
Again, I disagree; assuming that one has mastered the basics of any discipline, the ability to deviate from those rules and improvise is a joy that highlights the beauty of the rules. But is that what we're talking about here? For example, is replacing "to have an impact on" with the newly invented verb "to impact" a joyful deviation from the rules, or an ugly distortion?
Have you ever been instructed to translate into North American English? I wonder if it would rankle you.
No, and no; because (a) I am not familiar with Canadian English and (b) I only translate into British English. That said, I am interested in other variants of English because my mother tongue is a particular local variant of Irish English.
I get asked....
I assume that is how you say it in Canadian English
I can assure you that "aluminium" feels every bit as wrong to me as "I seen".
Perhaps that's because in BE, "aluminium" is pronounced phonetically exactly as it is written, i.e. quite differently from American (and presumably Canadian) English.
In short: an ability to know the rules and norms of language and to use them skilfully is a form of empowerment; it enables us to express ourselves with great precision and nuance. We have access to ("can access" -there's another one, damn it!) a whole range of possibilities that the semi-literate don't know about.
Years ago I'd have said that was me ending a sentence with a preposition and was a no-no (I accept "no-no") but after years of academic reading and writing, now I think it's OK, so long as one knows what one is doing.
[Edited at 2016-10-14 07:25 GMT]
| | | | | Churchhill on ending sentences with propositions | Oct 14, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
Years ago I'd have said that was me ending a sentence with a preposition and was a no-no (I accept "no-no") but after years of academic reading and writing, now I think it's OK, so long as one knows what one is doing.
[Edited at 2016-10-14 07:25 GMT]
"This is the sort of English up with which I shall not put."
| | | | | Another example of changing usage? | Oct 14, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote: SBlack wrote:
I get asked.... I assume that is how you say it in Canadian English
Found on UK websites (no point putting all the links):
University of Cambridge, Communications Department page on "Working with the media": "Think about what questions you might get asked and how you would respond."
"[...] They had an effect on who was encouraged to go for promotions, who was invited to apply for jobs, who got asked to do administrative tasks [...]"
The Independent: "The weirdest admission interview questions you get asked at Oxford University"
"By the way, if you as a pupil get asked to write the traditional essay curtain-raiser for the academic year, [...]"
Guardian "FAQs: We get asked that a lot"
"If he gets asked to submit work to a show about love, for instance, he just sends whatever he wants [...]"
The Times "As a baby-faced 22-year-old, Ollie Purdue still gets asked for his ID in pubs."
"I don’t get asked to be on the cover of magazines very often [...]"
University of Oxford: "[...] to help students to become familiar with the type of questions they might get asked we release these real examples."
"[...] you should get asked to complete a survey less often in future."
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:18
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER |
and I'm not even mother tongue (mother-tongue? mothertongue?)...
| | | | Rebecca Davis
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:18
French to English
+ ...
| Off topic, I know | Oct 16, 2016 |
That is the case in France, with the Académie française, whose members are known as "the Immortals". In my opinion, the language has not evolved as much as English has in 400 years. I can see a play by Molière and understand almost all of it, unlike Shakespeare.
On the other hand, is reigning in the language a good or a bad thing? France is notorious for dragging its feet on "le masculin l'emporte", or questioning how female ministers should be properly addressed (some still ins... See more That is the case in France, with the Académie française, whose members are known as "the Immortals". In my opinion, the language has not evolved as much as English has in 400 years. I can see a play by Molière and understand almost all of it, unlike Shakespeare.
On the other hand, is reigning in the language a good or a bad thing? France is notorious for dragging its feet on "le masculin l'emporte", or questioning how female ministers should be properly addressed (some still insisting on Madame le Président, for instance http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2014/10/07/01002-20141007ARTFIG00324-madame-la-presidente-ou-le-president-quelle-est-la-regle.php). Question solved in Quebec, Switzerland, and Belgium in the eighties and nineties. http://information.tv5monde.com/terriennes/feminisation-des-mots-la-france-en-retard-22877
Maybe some language issues only seem obvious to "mere mortals".
Trust me, as a woman of a certain age, by the time you have battled your way to "Président", or President, or Chairman or whatever, you are well beyond caring how they address you... Personally, I would far rather be addressed as Madam Chairman, than Madam Chair, but each to their own... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | What is horrible? | Oct 18, 2016 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: and I'm not even mother tongue (mother-tongue? mothertongue?)...
The Churchhill joke? Or the UK occurrences of "get asked"?
[Edited at 2016-10-18 13:55 GMT]
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SBlack wrote: Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: and I'm not even mother tongue (mother-tongue? mothertongue?)... The Churchhill joke? Or the UK occurrences of "get asked"? [Edited at 2016-10-18 13:55 GMT]
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