Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
La chanteuse vénéreuse
English translation:
The seductive singer
Added to glossary by
Rachel Fell
Dec 24, 2009 19:53
14 yrs ago
French term
United Kingdom
La chanteuse vénéreuse
French to English
Art/Literary
Cinema, Film, TV, Drama
This is a caption to describe Isabella Rosselini in Blue Velvet. Checked 3 dictionaries cannot find a definition for vénéreuse. Any thoughts?
Proposed translations
(English)
References
| Venus |
cynthiatesser
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Change log
Jan 2, 2010 12:29: Rachel Fell Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+3
23 hrs
Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Thorough, knowledgeable and resourceful
Native in: English (Variant: UK) 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, Italian to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
The seductive singer
or sexy - just a suggestion
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/reeling/2009/11/isabella-ross...
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Note added at 1 day16 hrs (2009-12-26 12:07:45 GMT)
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Cette photo est de toute évidence issue d'une série de bouts d'essais réalisés pour un 'Carmen' qui n'a jamais vu le jour, et voilà donc cette couverture, cette pochette, cette armure qu'à la première ligne elle brise pour montrer sa sensibilité et sa mélancolie. CC [Claudia Cardinale] joue la femme fatale, vénéneuse, vénéreuse même pourrait on dire si le mot existait. La réalité est toute autre: une gamine sicilienne de Tunis parfaitememnt francophone, violée à 15 ans,
http://www.amazon.fr/review/R2T8F6HGFLB4BO
Well, I don't know whether the word exists officially, but anyway, that's what seems to be meant.
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Note added at 2 days25 mins (2009-12-26 20:18:36 GMT)
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here Nico is described as a "chanteuse vénéneuse"
Connaître lyon : The Velvet Underground – Un mythe new ...
Moins populaire que les Stones ou les Beatles, la bande des cinq et leur chanteuse vénéneuse, Nico, ont pourtant une résonance beaucoup plus grande dans la ...
www.petit-bulletin.fr/index2.php?.
but not sure whether author of Asker's title was a typo or meant chanteuse vénéreuse
In view of the way the film is (I saw it a long time ago), I'm not sure that I would call her poisonous or venomous
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/reeling/2009/11/isabella-ross...
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Note added at 1 day16 hrs (2009-12-26 12:07:45 GMT)
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Cette photo est de toute évidence issue d'une série de bouts d'essais réalisés pour un 'Carmen' qui n'a jamais vu le jour, et voilà donc cette couverture, cette pochette, cette armure qu'à la première ligne elle brise pour montrer sa sensibilité et sa mélancolie. CC [Claudia Cardinale] joue la femme fatale, vénéneuse, vénéreuse même pourrait on dire si le mot existait. La réalité est toute autre: une gamine sicilienne de Tunis parfaitememnt francophone, violée à 15 ans,
http://www.amazon.fr/review/R2T8F6HGFLB4BO
Well, I don't know whether the word exists officially, but anyway, that's what seems to be meant.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days25 mins (2009-12-26 20:18:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
here Nico is described as a "chanteuse vénéneuse"
Connaître lyon : The Velvet Underground – Un mythe new ...
Moins populaire que les Stones ou les Beatles, la bande des cinq et leur chanteuse vénéneuse, Nico, ont pourtant une résonance beaucoup plus grande dans la ...
www.petit-bulletin.fr/index2.php?.
but not sure whether author of Asker's title was a typo or meant chanteuse vénéreuse
In view of the way the film is (I saw it a long time ago), I'm not sure that I would call her poisonous or venomous
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
: or sultry; cf. "ces sept jeunes musiciens tissent depuis trois ans la toile vénéreuse d'une matière sonore en constant frémissement" (passages such as this suggest the source is not "Vénus" but "venin"; cf. "champignons vénéreux" -- and "femme fatale")
13 hrs
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Thank you Jim!\I think it's a typo for vénéneuse in places, but I think vénéreuse may also be used as a neologism in places - anyone French around?
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| agree |
cynthiatesser
: I think it comes from the Latin "Venus, Veneris", the goddess of love and seduction. In ancient English "venery" means "lust".
15 hrs
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So do I - thank you Cynthia!
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| agree |
Jennifer Forbes
: I think this is the best suggestion.
17 hrs
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Thank you Jenny:-)
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| neutral |
joehlindsay
: I think this is plausible, but this word is not common in French. It may be a neologistic attempt to evoke Venus, the goddess of love, beauty & fertility and avoid 'venereal' (Vénérien).
19 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
1 hr
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
Israel
Israel
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Quality, Reliability, Experience.
Native in: English 
, Romanian
Works in: French to English, Hebrew to English, Romanian to English, and 3 more.
erotic singer
from Venus.
"1er voyage = érotique, vénéreux, charnel 2ème voyage = amour idolâtre, déifique 3ème voyage = amour primitif (réchauffé par le feu de bois). ...
analyses-litteraires.com/analyses/viewtopic.php?f=170&t=4526 -
http://tinyurl.com/y8e4aar
"mieux vaut le crime, les amants qui se suicident, l’inceste du frère et de la sœur, miroirs, amoureux de leur ressemblance mieux vaut le pain empoisonné, l’adultère dans des lits de cendre, les amours féroces, le délice, son lierre vénéreux"...
Ethiopiques numéros 37-38 revue trimestrielle de culture négro-africaine
nouvelle série 2eme et 3ème trimestres 1984
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-12-24 21:25:44 GMT)
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"Issue de la scène country canadienne, j'ai la nette impression que Kiera Lee va devenir, en l'espace de quelques mois, une vénéreuse et séduisante chanteuse "
http://tinyurl.com/y86hzj5
"1er voyage = érotique, vénéreux, charnel 2ème voyage = amour idolâtre, déifique 3ème voyage = amour primitif (réchauffé par le feu de bois). ...
analyses-litteraires.com/analyses/viewtopic.php?f=170&t=4526 -
http://tinyurl.com/y8e4aar
"mieux vaut le crime, les amants qui se suicident, l’inceste du frère et de la sœur, miroirs, amoureux de leur ressemblance mieux vaut le pain empoisonné, l’adultère dans des lits de cendre, les amours féroces, le délice, son lierre vénéreux"...
Ethiopiques numéros 37-38 revue trimestrielle de culture négro-africaine
nouvelle série 2eme et 3ème trimestres 1984
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-12-24 21:25:44 GMT)
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"Issue de la scène country canadienne, j'ai la nette impression que Kiera Lee va devenir, en l'espace de quelques mois, une vénéreuse et séduisante chanteuse "
http://tinyurl.com/y86hzj5
9 hrs
admired or venerable or Agreeable
it means also respected, esteemed, august,honored
+1
1 day 8 hrs
the celebrated vocal artist
Mostly just style. The word is of course and adjectival form rooted in the verb vénérer. I think we would tend to say "celebrated" in english in this context.
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2009-12-26 04:41:38 GMT)
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A few instances of "celebrated vocal artist" I got when I googled:
-"Activist and Celebrated Vocal Artist Rachel Bagby, JD ( Stanford) is an internationally recognized vocal artist and ..."
-"The climax of bel canto was reached when the celebrated vocal artist, Pistocchi, founded his training school for vocalists. ..."
-"Squirrel is voiced by June Foray, the celebrated vocal artist who originated the role..."
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2009-12-26 04:41:38 GMT)
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A few instances of "celebrated vocal artist" I got when I googled:
-"Activist and Celebrated Vocal Artist Rachel Bagby, JD ( Stanford) is an internationally recognized vocal artist and ..."
-"The climax of bel canto was reached when the celebrated vocal artist, Pistocchi, founded his training school for vocalists. ..."
-"Squirrel is voiced by June Foray, the celebrated vocal artist who originated the role..."
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jim Tucker (X)
: Except that I.R. is not a celebrated vocal artist in real life, and just a nightclub singer in B.V.; better technique would be to google the French collocation and deduce from there.
4 hrs
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| agree |
cynthiatesser
: Maybe, but the derivation from "Venus" convinces me more. Why would a singer be "poisonous"?
9 hrs
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1 day 19 hrs
sensual
With more context, I might switch to 'sensual', ie alludes to Venus, Goddess of love, beauty and fertiility.
+1
1 day 19 hrs
The poisonous/lethal/venemous singer
I know this film quite well. Isabella Rossellini plays a rather tormented femme fatale, a singer involved with the underworld. I think the meaning is metaphorical. Her effect is poisonous and malign; and her back story is one of being seriously mistreated herself.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
joehlindsay
: But why would the author say vénéreuse instead of vénéneuse if he/she meant poisonous? She was poisonous and very sensual in this movie.
24 mins
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I think it is something people say, a neologism perhaps. An example is this use, although doubting the word's credentials, in a similar context: "Claudia Cardinale joue la femme fatale, vénéneuse, vénéreuse même pourrait on dire si le mot existait".
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| agree |
Emma Paulay
: Yes - supposing this is either a typo for "vénéneuse" or a neologism - a cross between "vénéneuse" and "généreuse".
1 day 4 hrs
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Thanks Emma. I don't think it's a typo but a conflation of two ideas.
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2 days 22 hrs
Verginia Ophof
Belize
Belize
Native in English
Belize
Near Native Proficiency in Source langua
Native in: English
Works in: Portuguese to English, Dutch to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
16
the idolized singer
suggestion
3 days 33 mins
The fatally attractive singer
Or "dangerously seductive". This is presuming a neologism - mixing "vénéneuse" and "généreuse".
Reference comments
1 day 15 hrs
cynthiatesser
Italy
Italy
Works in field
Italy
Knowledge makes the difference
Native in: Italian (Variant: Standard-Italy)
Works in: English to Italian, French to Italian, Italian
Reference:
Venus
I think it comes from the Latin word "Venus, Veneris", the goddess of love and seduction. In ancient English "venery" means "lust". The same root as for "vénérien" (venereal).
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| neutral |
Jim Tucker (X)
: could be a popular etymology, but have a look at the link above in discussion; perhaps not "Venus" but "venenum"; cf. "champignons vénéreux" -- and "femme fatale" ; the end result may be similar: erotically dangerous. Intervocalic n/r can be explained.
2 hrs
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Discussion
This fellow is trying to analyze its usage in a situation like the asker's, but I don't think he has it quite right:
http://www.lalibre.be/culture/mediastele/article/491038/vene...
I think a historical analysis would show that the liquids r and n are interchangeable in certain contexts, depending on dialect.