Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
...roi des Francais a tous presens et a venir, salut
English translation:
King of the French, to all present and to come, greeting.
Added to glossary by
Melanie Dvorak
Sep 14, 2015 12:23
8 yrs ago
9 viewers *
French term
Evening and weekend work a speciality
Native in: English 
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English
...roi des Francais a tous presens et a venir, salut
French to English
Law/Patents
History
Historical financial documents
This occurs following the name of the king in question at the top of a document, it appears to be a standard formulaic heading.
The document is 19th century, hand written (and very difficult to read!). Appears to be financial, perhaps relating to a will.
The document is 19th century, hand written (and very difficult to read!). Appears to be financial, perhaps relating to a will.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+2
8 mins
Selected
King of the French, to all present and to come, greeting.
In all the examples I've seen the king is Louis Philippe. This English version is used in English versions of the period, such as this one from 1844:
https://books.google.es/books?id=9pNMAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA785&lpg=P...
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Note added at 16 mins (2015-09-14 12:40:36 GMT)
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Sorry, I meant to say something like "This phrasing is used in English versions of the period".
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Note added at 21 mins (2015-09-14 12:44:44 GMT)
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Putting "greeting" at the end, by the way, makes it more like equivalent expressions in English documents, such as the classic "To all to whom these Presents shall come, greeting!"
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Note added at 29 mins (2015-09-14 12:53:04 GMT)
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In this example from 1836, Henry Bulwer Lytton (no less) uses this form of words but puts "salut!" at the end, which I think is rather charming:
https://books.google.es/books?id=87MUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA213&lpg=P...
In a few cases you find "Louis Philippe, King of the French, to all to whom these presents shall come, greeting", using the actual English formula, as in the Illustrated London News of 1844:
https://books.google.es/books?id=_rJLAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA530&lpg=P...
But I think that's taking a bit of a liberty.
https://books.google.es/books?id=9pNMAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA785&lpg=P...
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Note added at 16 mins (2015-09-14 12:40:36 GMT)
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Sorry, I meant to say something like "This phrasing is used in English versions of the period".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2015-09-14 12:44:44 GMT)
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Putting "greeting" at the end, by the way, makes it more like equivalent expressions in English documents, such as the classic "To all to whom these Presents shall come, greeting!"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 29 mins (2015-09-14 12:53:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In this example from 1836, Henry Bulwer Lytton (no less) uses this form of words but puts "salut!" at the end, which I think is rather charming:
https://books.google.es/books?id=87MUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA213&lpg=P...
In a few cases you find "Louis Philippe, King of the French, to all to whom these presents shall come, greeting", using the actual English formula, as in the Illustrated London News of 1844:
https://books.google.es/books?id=_rJLAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA530&lpg=P...
But I think that's taking a bit of a liberty.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
B D Finch
: "To all to whom these Presents shall come" means "to all recipients of this document", not the same as "to all present and to come"..//I missed that, so as the simplest translation with the most thorough explanation this must get an "agree".
1 hr
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No indeed, that's why I'm not suggesting it, indeed I've said it shouldn't be used. For "it would be taking a bit of a liberty", at the end of my answer, please read "it would be unwarranted". // Thanks!
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| agree |
Yolanda Broad
10 hrs
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Thank you, Yolanda!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you! This has really helped."
12 mins
Wendy Streitparth
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Germany
45 years experience
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
King of France, greetings to those present and to come
19 mins
Olga Montes
Canada
Canada
Native in English
Works in field
Canada
A native speaker of three languages
Native in: English (Variants: Canadian, US) , Spanish (Variant: Standard-Spain)
Works in: English to French, French to English, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
King of the French, to all current and future, greetings
greeting takes an 's' if it addresses a crowd.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
B D Finch
: No, it doesn't. "Greeting" is the archaic form of the modern expression "greetings".
1 hr
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I stand corrected. Thank you.
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53 mins
patrickfor
France
France
Native in French
France
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France)
Works in: English to French, French to English
King of the French, to all present and future, salute.
a very formal statement addressed to present and future generations... the King salutes his people...
Reference comments
1 hr
Reference:
fwiw
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_patents/3219...
À tous, présents et à venir, salut ou à tous ceux qui ces présentes lettres verront, formules de l’ancien style de chancellerie.
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/présent
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Note added at 1 hr (2015-09-14 14:16:07 GMT)
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LOI - WET
www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/.../loi_a1.pl?...
A tous, présents et à venir, Salut. La Chambre des représentants a adopté et Nous sanctionnons ce qui suit : (Loi) Promulguons la présente loi, ordonnons ...
À tous, présents et à venir, salut ou à tous ceux qui ces présentes lettres verront, formules de l’ancien style de chancellerie.
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/présent
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Note added at 1 hr (2015-09-14 14:16:07 GMT)
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LOI - WET
www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/.../loi_a1.pl?...
A tous, présents et à venir, Salut. La Chambre des représentants a adopté et Nous sanctionnons ce qui suit : (Loi) Promulguons la présente loi, ordonnons ...
Discussion
Quant à l'orthographe, oui, elle est plus ou moins figée au XIXe siècle; l'irrégularité dont j'ai parlé se produit plutôt dans les documents plus anciens. En 1833, même en 1791, "présens" est consciemment archaïque, mais les rois de la restauration post-napoléonienne — Louis XVIII, Charles X, Louis-Philippe — l'employaient sans doute pour marquer leur continuité avec l'Ancien Régime.
A propos de "greeting" signifiant "meet and salute" j'en prends bonne note a condition que le "meet" n'ait aucun rapport avec la rencontre effective.
le "Salut" français dans ce contexte a le même sens que dans "Salut à nos armes ! / à nos combattants " c'est plus une marque de respect que de bienvenue... N'étant pas "native EN" j'ai un peu de mal à en juger....
Dans les documents historiques originaux, même les royaux, l'orthographe, les accents et l'emploi des majuscules sont souvent irréguliers, voire chaotiques.
Mes excuses donc !
https://books.google.es/books?id=MQhHAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA224&lpg=P...
+ it should be "Salut" at the very least and not "salut"
see this document from August 1830
"LOUIS-PHILIPPE, ROI DES FRANÇAIS, à tous présents et à venir, SALUT. "
http://www.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/conseil-constitutionne...
and this one from August 1791
"Article 3. - La promulgation sera ainsi conçue - " N. (le nom du roi) par la grâce de Dieu, et par la loi constitutionnelle de 1'Etat, roi des Français, A tous présents et à venir, Salut .
http://www.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/conseil-constitutionne...
http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/editsdepacification/edit_04
As for the French, all the accents you've indicated ought to be there and probably are there in the source, but the archaic spelling "présens" for "présents" is probably correct.
"roi des Français à tous présents et à venir, Salut."
C'est une proclamation pour les vivants (présents) et leurs descendants (those to come)