| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3] > | How to make sure clients will pay after translations have been submitted Автор темы: steph_cuevas
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How do I do this? Help pls.
| | | | Russell Jones 
Великобритания
Local time: 10:54
итальянский => английский
| No threats please | Mar 13, 2010 |
Elodie Bonnafous wrote: - if it is an agency, threaten with a consequent commentary on ther Blue Board, and threaten to inform the end client (the words "inform the end client" are magical somehow 
Please note site rule: http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/9#9
"The Blue Board may not be used to coerce.
Using the Blue Board, or threatening to use the Blue
Board, in such a way as to pressure an outsourcer or
service provider into taking some action, is strictly
prohibited."
| | | | Yasutomo Kanazawa
Япония
Local time: 18:54
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => японский
+ ...
| One point I'm not sure about | Mar 13, 2010 |
Russell Jones wrote: Elodie Bonnafous wrote: - if it is an agency, threaten with a consequent commentary on ther Blue Board, and threaten to inform the end client (the words "inform the end client" are magical somehow Please note site rule: http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/9#9 "The Blue Board may not be used to coerce. Using the Blue Board, or threatening to use the Blue Board, in such a way as to pressure an outsourcer or service provider into taking some action, is strictly prohibited."
As the site rule above says that you cannot use to coerce, does that mean that if an agency or an outsourcer whom you worked for refuses to pay (of course no complaints) but keeps on dodging the payment, you cannot tell the agency or the outsourcer that if you do not pay within xx days, I will enter a low score on the BB. Is that what it means?
| | | | | To comply with Proz rules | Mar 13, 2010 |
Russell Jones wrote: Please note site rule: http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/9#9 "The Blue Board may not be used to coerce. Using the Blue Board, or threatening to use the Blue Board, in such a way as to pressure an outsourcer or service provider into taking some action, is strictly prohibited."
OK, so do not threaten them about the BB (besides, not all of us have access to the BB, and a great deal of potential non payers might not even be in there), just "tell" them you will inform the end client. As Elodie said, these words seem to work wonders.
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Elodie Bonnafous
Франция
Local time: 11:54
Член ProZ.com c 2009
немецкий => французский
+ ...
| A question of formulation | Mar 13, 2010 |
Threaten or notify..
Considering the question from another point view, I consider it is neither appropriate nor professional to make a negative Blue Board entry without informing the outsourcer beforehand.
In other terms, before I make a negative entry on bad clients, I always notify them about that before. (And this is always a magical word as well, after several weeks or months without a single answer to my reminders, they suddenly remember my invoice is still pending... See more Threaten or notify..
Considering the question from another point view, I consider it is neither appropriate nor professional to make a negative Blue Board entry without informing the outsourcer beforehand.
In other terms, before I make a negative entry on bad clients, I always notify them about that before. (And this is always a magical word as well, after several weeks or months without a single answer to my reminders, they suddenly remember my invoice is still pending )
I regard the fact of informing the outsourcer about a negative publication about them beforehand as a part of professional ethics. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elodie Bonnafous
Франция
Local time: 11:54
Член ProZ.com c 2009
немецкий => французский
+ ...
| I think you mix up "coerce / blackmail" and taking action | Mar 13, 2010 |
The rule says "may not be used to coerce.../ as to pressure". There is a tremendous difference between "blackmailing / putting unjustified pressure on a client", and fighting for one's rights.
Very obviously this rule is intended to mean that the BB shall not be used "as a way of coercicition / blackmailing on clients when there is no clear reason", but I am very sure it does not mean that it is forbidden to notify outsourcers about a planned negative entry.
Let's say ... See more The rule says "may not be used to coerce.../ as to pressure". There is a tremendous difference between "blackmailing / putting unjustified pressure on a client", and fighting for one's rights.
Very obviously this rule is intended to mean that the BB shall not be used "as a way of coercicition / blackmailing on clients when there is no clear reason", but I am very sure it does not mean that it is forbidden to notify outsourcers about a planned negative entry.
Let's say the invoice was due 2 days ago, it definitely would be abusive to threaten the client with a negative Blueboard entry.
But if the invoice was due several months ago, (I use this method when the invoice is overdue for 10 weeks or more), and I decide to give up hoping and writing, then I inform my client about the steps I am going to take. I would never do such a thing without informing them beforehand!
[Modifié le 2010-03-13 16:57 GMT]
[Modifié le 2010-03-13 17:04 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | David Wright
Австрия
Local time: 11:54
немецкий => английский
+ ...
| Check my insurance | Mar 13, 2010 |
I know very well that what I have is an insurance that only pays my legal costs. BUT: The mere fact that I can use this as a threat to non-paying clients is the real benefit. Most non-payers don't pay because they think you can't afford the case. If you can, you're a goal or two up from the start,
[Edited at 2010-03-13 17:34 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-03-13 17:35 GMT]
| | | | Williamson
Великобритания
Local time: 10:54
фламандский => английский
+ ...
Put a double encrypted password (which is not easy to crack-I am aware that there are password crack-programmes) which allows the customer to read the text, to make his/her remarks, but not change anything to the text. If he/she is satisfied, tell him/her to go to the bank/contact her bank and pay you immediately. Chances are that after payment, you will never hear from him/her again, but that way you get your money (fast).
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DZiW (X)
Украина
английский => русский
+ ...
| grace period | Mar 13, 2010 |
IMO translators/ interpreters are very limited to take even legal measures, furthermore - most job sites (including ProZ) do as much as possible to let all three parties 'save face'... Loosing one's good name is loosing the tag of being the reliable partner for investment. On the other hand - any business is a degree of risk.
So, I think the only way to save at least 50% is to... ask for 50% advance))
Cheers
[Edited at 2010-03-14 12:29 GMT]
| | | | steph_cuevas
Канада
Local time: 05:54
Член ProZ.com c 2010
английский => тагалог
+ ...
Автор темы | Thank you so much | Mar 13, 2010 |
To my fellow translators and to all who have given their opinions, advises, experiences, and the like, I would like to thank you all especially for the time and efforts you spent in replying with my post in this thread.
I really appreciate your help/helpful tips and advises you provided on this post.
It would help me to decide whether to take or turn down the project from end clients.
I cannot help but think that the client will not pay me since I al... See more To my fellow translators and to all who have given their opinions, advises, experiences, and the like, I would like to thank you all especially for the time and efforts you spent in replying with my post in this thread.
I really appreciate your help/helpful tips and advises you provided on this post.
It would help me to decide whether to take or turn down the project from end clients.
I cannot help but think that the client will not pay me since I already sent him 2 polite reminders about the project he has not paid me for. Because in the beginning of the project, he notifies me if he will not be available for some days and that he will try to get back to me as soon as he can. He even praised my work for the first set and told me that once the project has been completed, I would expect to have at least 1 project every month. But as the project comes to an end, and actually finally completed, I did not receive a reply from him even a confirmation that he has received the last set of the project. I was wondering because I can see him online since he is also using a yahoo email account. He also sent me a Non-Disclosure Agreement for the project.
Thank you again for all your advises regarding this matter. All the best!
Best Regards,
Stephanie ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elodie Bonnafous
Франция
Local time: 11:54
Член ProZ.com c 2009
немецкий => французский
+ ...
| non-disclosure agreement | Mar 14, 2010 |
Dear Stephanie,
please also note you should clarify payment conditions and terms right from the beginning.
What was agreed about the payment ? When did you invoice the translation ? When was he supposed to pay ? How long has been the delay by now ? 2 weeks delay are unfortunately not rare...
If he made you sign a non-disclosure agreement, you can then remind him that this agreement is only valid if he respects his obligations.
The fact that he ... See more Dear Stephanie,
please also note you should clarify payment conditions and terms right from the beginning.
What was agreed about the payment ? When did you invoice the translation ? When was he supposed to pay ? How long has been the delay by now ? 2 weeks delay are unfortunately not rare...
If he made you sign a non-disclosure agreement, you can then remind him that this agreement is only valid if he respects his obligations.
The fact that he placed an order with you means from a legal point of view he made a contract with you. And this means you both had obligations towards each other. You committed to deliver the translation and not to disclose certain information, and he committed to pay you for the job.
The fact that he doesn't pay you is a breach of contract, which means the contract and subsequent obligations are not valid any more. You can remind him if he doesn't pay you till an appropriate date, the non-disclosure agreement (which is part of the breached contract) won't be valid anymore. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The cash flow game - a telltale sign | Mar 14, 2010 |
Beware of some agencies that play what I've named as "the cash flow game". Their mark is long payment terms. If these are things like:
- 45 days from delivery
- 60 days from delivery
- on the last day of the first/second month after your invoice
- 30 working days from delivery/invoice
- 45 days from delivery
- 60 days from delivery
- on the last day of the first/second month after your invoice
- 30 working days from delivery/invoice
... chances are that they are playing the cash flow game.
Exception made to clients/agencies that keep work flowing nonstop to you, which justifies setting a "closing date" every month, and maybe payment will be in 30 days from that date, I've calculated that two weeks is more than enough time for an agency to check your work, submit it to the end-client - which then will check your work and pay the agency - and to pay you.
Anything beyond that is the cash flow game. How does it work?
The agency is set up with little or no capital, fraught with some or all the symptoms our esteemed colleagues have listed here so far. They charge the end client either in advance or COD, and then live happily on that money during your payment term. When your payday comes up, they'll pay you with the up-front or COD money they get from/for the NEXT job. It's easy to reason that if their demand declines, or halts, you won't get paid at all.
Bottom line is that you'll be lending money to these guys at zero interest rate.
When they insist, I tell them I have a deal with my bank: the bank may take (if they wish - quite unlikely) translation work at twice my rates, while I'll lend money (if I wish - qite unlikely) at twice their interest rates. So my rates for longer payment terms are outrageously higher. If the client is honest, they'll accept paying COD or close to it. If they don't care about the price, just want my job done, I'll know that they don't care about how much they'll owe me, in view of their firm intent in not paying anything. ▲ Collapse
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Stephanie/Jose - how true. This particular agency stated an outrageously long payment term, I had a bad feeling about it and should have turned the job down. I have now informed the agency about my intent and also notified the end client. Watch this space. Unfortunately I will be away on business until late Friday, from tomorrow, so I won't know until then if/what they reply.
| | | | Wolf Kux
Бразилия
Local time: 06:54
Член ProZ.com c 2006
немецкий => португальский
+ ...
| Translations agencies bad practices at Linkedin | Mar 14, 2010 |
Register yourself on the Linkedin site and become member of the Group named "Translations agencies bad practices".
Here you may hear / read about some non-payers. Of course, not everyone non-payer is there.
Another interesting process, if it is a north-american agency, is to tell them [the agency] that you would tell the IRS (Internal Revenue Service) to write off your credit.
If you really do this, then this may happen:
you lost this money, a... See more Register yourself on the Linkedin site and become member of the Group named "Translations agencies bad practices".
Here you may hear / read about some non-payers. Of course, not everyone non-payer is there.
Another interesting process, if it is a north-american agency, is to tell them [the agency] that you would tell the IRS (Internal Revenue Service) to write off your credit.
If you really do this, then this may happen:
you lost this money, and, of course, this client;
the agency has to pay taxes to IRS about this job, since IRS interprets your decision as an income to the agency;
the "big dogs" from IRS would take a visit to this agency and verify every line of their accounting;
if they found something (likewise an "i" without dot!), then this other-found taxes may become very, very expensive for this agency;
so, the accountant of this agency will suggest the owner to pay you very easily. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Arianne Farah
Канада
Local time: 05:54
Член ProZ.com c 2008
английский => французский
| I heard about this | Mar 14, 2010 |
Wolf Kux wrote:
Register yourself on the Linkedin site and become member of the Group named "Translations agencies bad practices".
Here you may hear / read about some non-payers. Of course, not everyone non-payer is there.
Another interesting process, if it is a north-american agency, is to tell them [the agency] that you would tell the IRS (Internal Revenue Service) to write off your credit.
If you really do this, then this may happen:
you lost this money, and, of course, this client;
the agency has to pay taxes to IRS about this job, since IRS interprets your decision as an income to the agency;
the "big dogs" from IRS would take a visit to this agency and verify every line of their accounting;
if they found something (likewise an "i" without dot!), then this other-found taxes may become very, very expensive for this agency;
so, the accountant of this agency will suggest the owner to pay you very easily.
I've heard about this before. I think it's brilliant for small unpaid debts (knock on wood, it hasn't happened to me yet!) but if you "forgive" the debt and inform the IRS they'll check to see if the forgiven debt is declared as income and if discrepancies are found of course the company could get audited - As Wolf mentioned it "may" happen, then again it may not. Also if the agency has shady payment practices/accounting you can be sure their books aren't up to the required standards - isn't there a tip line for this sort of thing?
Obviously this is not an answer to the original thread question but rather one of the last steps you can take once it has become clear the agency/client has no intention of paying you.
As with any relationship in life, professional or otherwise, there is no way to "be sure" but as it's commonly known "the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour" so check that Blue Board!
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