| Páginas no tópico: < [1 2 3] | False translators, true agencies Tópico cartaz: Arnaud HERVE
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| Question on loss-making | Jun 24, 2009 |
For those jurisdictions which forbid the making of a profit on other people's work unless you have separate legal personality - what does the legislation say about making a loss under the same circumstances?
Just wondered....
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Edited. Cheers everyone!
[Edited at 2009-06-24 14:07 GMT]
| | | | trans2
Local time: 08:23
inglês para lituano
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| I fully support E. Hemingway and you... | Jun 24, 2009 |
ScottishWildCat wrote:
I guess we all more or less know the following lines:
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less... any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind...
Perchance he for whom this bell tolls, may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me... may have caused it to toll for me... and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
[Edited at 2009-06-22 18:44 GMT]
| | | | | Getting full worth from your certificates/credentials | Jun 24, 2009 |
Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
... The translators submit proof of the qualifications, certifications, degrees, only to never hear again from those agencies who - after being awarded the contract - have the work done by much cheaper translators not in possession of the required qualifications.
Hello Heike
Yes, this is an interesting one - agencies run by non-T&I practitioners which seek to trade on our certificates or promote themselves using our credentials. In this type of scenario, the qualifications themselves are a valuable asset to the business. How do peers handle this. Do you just hand over copies of your certificates FOC, or do you negotiate some kind of 'interest' in the business with the business owner first.
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Laurent KRAULAND (X) 
França
Local time: 07:23
francês para alemão
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| It really depends of your position | Jun 24, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
It is somewhat funny: I have seen SO MANY people passionately call for a fair, low-profit, honest society... and when they have a chance to make profit on others they are the worst kind of unfair, high-profit, tax-evading employers!!!
Fairness is always "for the others", if not strictly "for the birds" at least when you can earn money without efforts. And as I said before, some colleagues out there act in the same way as the below-average agency will do when they outsource. Their defence of good practices applies only when they can take advantage of it.
But this, I guess, is a matter between them and me - although mentioning it in a public forum has its reasons, telling them (if they ever read this) that I am aware of what is going on behind the scenes.
Laurent K.
[Edited at 2009-06-24 09:27 GMT]
| | | | | I don't get the point | Jun 24, 2009 |
Taxes, proper registration as a company of freelancing individual are a local problem. Anyone from Lower Slobovia hiring me to do some work is not liable for the taxes I have to pay in Brazil. Likewise, I shouldn't care if they are properly registered and paying their takes in Lower Slobovia. I must deliver the work they ordered from me by the time and in the quality we agreed, and they must pay me what, when, and how we mutually agreed. Anything else is a private matter for each party. Either p... See more Taxes, proper registration as a company of freelancing individual are a local problem. Anyone from Lower Slobovia hiring me to do some work is not liable for the taxes I have to pay in Brazil. Likewise, I shouldn't care if they are properly registered and paying their takes in Lower Slobovia. I must deliver the work they ordered from me by the time and in the quality we agreed, and they must pay me what, when, and how we mutually agreed. Anything else is a private matter for each party. Either party has the right to say no to the other if a mutually acceptable agreement cannot be reached.
If I am hired by a translation agency, a translator, or anyone else, it shouldn't make any difference, as long as the provisions above are fulfilled.
A fellow translator - thanks to her effective marketing - later turned into an outsourcer, and therefore a client of mine. She had a tough decision to make. Her husband, being an executive in a large company, therefore skilled in decision-making, told her: Either you translate or you outsource. You won't have time to do both.
Now and then she makes up herself - as a translator - for incomplete or inadequate work she gets. Sometimes it's a small job, and it will take her less time to do it than to outsource.
So what could be 'false' about that? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
França
Local time: 07:23
francês para alemão
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| Well old Europe is somewhat different | Jun 24, 2009 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Likewise, I shouldn't care if they are properly registered and paying their takes in Lower Slobovia.
Failing to check the VAT ID number of an EU client as per its existence and validity and invoicing them without VAT may cost me the amount of VAT theorically involved should this ID be non-existent or wrong.
Laurent K.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
França
Local time: 07:23
francês para alemão
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| Which kind of loss? | Jun 24, 2009 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
For those jurisdictions which forbid the making of a profit on other people's work unless you have separate legal personality - what does the legislation say about making a loss under the same circumstances?
Just wondered....
Well, if an outsourcer/client fails to pay you within the agreed term, you are supposed to use each and every mean available to get paid and to hold your claim year after year after year. You can only write off the amount as a loss when the outsourcer/client in question is officially and clearly not able to pay you anymore in any way - IWO, only in case of bankruptcy.
Did you have other losses in mind?
Laurent
PS: as it may appear from my previous posts, the French DGI is obsessed with fiscal fraud!
[Edited at 2009-06-24 13:49 GMT]
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ScottishWildCat wrote:
Did you have other losses in mind?
Perhaps I wasn't clear.
There are rules in France prohibiting freelancers (no separate legal personality) selling on other people's work for more than they paid for it (at a profit).
Are there rules prohibiting freelanvers from selling work for LESS than they paid for it? (e.g., as outlined previously, in an emergency, to keep the client, etc.)
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
França
Local time: 07:23
francês para alemão
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| Sales at a loss | Jun 24, 2009 |
Charlie Bavington wrote: ScottishWildCat wrote:
Did you have other losses in mind? Perhaps I wasn't clear. There are rules in France prohibiting freelancers (no separate legal personality) selling on other people's work for more than they paid for it (at a profit). Are there rules prohibiting freelanvers from selling work for LESS than they paid for it? (e.g., as outlined previously, in an emergency, to keep the client, etc.)
This is what our current laws call "vente à perte", which is globally forbidden - in commerce and industry as well as in services, no matter which legal status you have.
Laurent K.
[Edited at 2009-06-24 14:47 GMT]
| | | | | Interesting stuff | Jun 24, 2009 |
ScottishWildCat wrote:
This is what our current laws call "vente à perte", which is globally forbidden - in commerce and industry as well as in services, no matter which legal status you have.
I had heard of this in relation to supermarkets, and other contexts where selling at a loss could be construed as "unfair competition" generally.
I had not realised there was a global ban on it and that it would also apply to freelancers (although I have not considered the question in any depth!). It's all very interesting. And, it seems, quite limiting. I daresay the government had good reason to introduce the legislation, but it seems to me, as an outsider, to present quite an obstacle to a freelancer who wishes to start small, and expand, perhaps with a view to forming a company if business goes well.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
França
Local time: 07:23
francês para alemão
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| Contradictions... or so it seems | Jun 24, 2009 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
It's all very interesting. And, it seems, quite limiting. I daresay the government had good reason to introduce the legislation, but it seems to me, as an outsider, to present quite an obstacle to a freelancer who wishes to start small, and expand, perhaps with a view to forming a company if business goes well.
This becomes even more interesting in a larger perspective, in which price fixing or agreement on prices between professionals is forbidden at EU level on the one hand, while no-one can tell you what an acceptable price (and therefore: an abnormally low price) could actually be on the other hand.
It all finally comes down to the person doing the job and how the amount invoiced is enough to allow them to make a living and to pay (maybe we should say "finance"?) their expenses and taxes.
Laurent
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