| 话题中的页数: [1 2] > | Off topic: Skopos theory 论题张贴者: Marianna Chatzigianni
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Hello i am trying to do an essay for my MSc in Speciliased translation and I need your opinion, if it is possible.
Do you believe that skopos theory is useful for professional translstors? And why
The actual question is a general one, but i can render it as a specific one:
"how useful is translation theory for profrssiosional translators?"
[Έγινε επεξεργασία στις 2017-12-01 11:01 GMT]
| | | | Mario Chavez (X) 
Local time: 01:43
English英语译成Spanish西班牙语
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| It's not a matter of belief | Dec 1, 2017 |
maya213 wrote:
Hello i am trying to do an essay for my MSc in Speciliased translation and I need your opinion, if it is possible.
Do you believe that skopos theory is useful for professional translstors? And why
The question is self-defeating in my opinion, because you'll invite yes and no answers with very little explanations or examples to support either.
What is the topic of the essay? How does skopos theory fit in it? What are you trying to say in your essay?
| | | | John Fossey
加拿大
Local time: 01:43
正式会员 (自2008)
French法语译成English英语
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maya213 wrote:
Hello i am trying to do an essay for my MSc in Speciliased translation and I need your opinion, if it is possible.
Do you believe that skopos theory is useful for professional translstors? And why
It isn't to me, because I have never heard of it so I have no use for it, at least up to now.
| | | | Daniel Frisano
意大利
Local time: 07:43
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English英语译成Italian意大利语
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In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skopos_theory you can find:
The functional approach has a great affinity with Skopos theory. The function of a translation depends on the knowledge, expectations, values and norms of the target readers, who are again influenced by the situation they are in and by the culture. These factors determine whether the function of the source text or passages in the source text can be preserved or have to be modified or even changed.
"Passages in the source text (...) have to be modified or even changed"? Yeah, I'll try that, just for fun. I'd be out of business in no time flat.
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| A general question | Dec 1, 2017 |
Hello thank you very much for your answer
The ssay question is a general one, but i am allowed to render it as a specific one
"how does translation theory is useful for professional translators?
| | | | Daniel Erlich
巴西
Local time: 02:43
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Portuguese葡萄牙语译成English英语
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| Maybe they mean adaptation to the target reader? | Dec 1, 2017 |
The en.WP article is very poorly written. I was curious, so I found this https://www.slideshare.net/habibeh/purposesskopos-theory presentation. (caveat: it doesn't seem too much better than the WP article.)
From the looks of things, this theory seems to have been created by academics, who maybe translated a literary work as their Master's thesis, that kind of thing. N... See more The en.WP article is very poorly written. I was curious, so I found this https://www.slideshare.net/habibeh/purposesskopos-theory presentation. (caveat: it doesn't seem too much better than the WP article.)
From the looks of things, this theory seems to have been created by academics, who maybe translated a literary work as their Master's thesis, that kind of thing. Not actual, day-to-day translators such as we'd find here on ProZ. I'm grasping at straws, but maybe what they're trying to describe are things like changing a baseball reference to a soccer reference?
I.e., if your target reader has no idea about baseball and zero clue what an "inning" is, but they are avid soccer fans, you could change "bottom of the ninth" to "the last minute of the game" [in PT we have a perfect translation, "45 do segundo tempo"]. ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Fossey
加拿大
Local time: 01:43
正式会员 (自2008)
French法语译成English英语
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| Skopos theory | Dec 1, 2017 |
It seems to put emphasis on adapting the target text to the purpose of the translation. I can see that as being applicable in literary or marketing texts, but certainly not in the technical or legal texts that make up the bulk of my work.
It should be pointed out that the translator often doesn't even know what the purpose of the translation is, so how can it be adapted to the purpose of the target audience?
For example, translating a user manual could be intended for a... See more It seems to put emphasis on adapting the target text to the purpose of the translation. I can see that as being applicable in literary or marketing texts, but certainly not in the technical or legal texts that make up the bulk of my work.
It should be pointed out that the translator often doesn't even know what the purpose of the translation is, so how can it be adapted to the purpose of the target audience?
For example, translating a user manual could be intended for a company's customers that use its equipment. But it could also be for the lawyers of a competitor who are putting together a patent infringement case. The translator has to produce a target text that is "true and faithful" to the source text, frequently having to provide certification that this is the case. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
法国
Local time: 07:43
French法语译成English英语
| Sense of purpose | Dec 1, 2017 |
I remember having to wade through a long document detailing requirements for the agency I worked for to be able to join some translation agency society.
Most requirements were just out of reach (such as the astronomical fee to have people come and audit the firm), and the only one that was even implementable, was the requirement of systematically asking the purpose of the translation.
Of course with most repeat customers you know it'll be the same purpose as for the pr... See more I remember having to wade through a long document detailing requirements for the agency I worked for to be able to join some translation agency society.
Most requirements were just out of reach (such as the astronomical fee to have people come and audit the firm), and the only one that was even implementable, was the requirement of systematically asking the purpose of the translation.
Of course with most repeat customers you know it'll be the same purpose as for the previous translation, and the one before that, and the one before that. It's important for new clients especially. ▲ Collapse
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The Misha
Local time: 01:43
Russian俄语译成English英语
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[quote]Daniel Frisano wrote:
In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skopos_theory you can find:
... The function of a translation depends on the knowledge, expectations, values and norms of the target readers, who are again influenced by the situation they are in and by the culture...
But, but, but...(eyes blinking rapidly)... Isn't this, like, obvious? To anyone who's been doing this for a while? Isn't this plain old common sense (Buckets should be well fit for carrying water. Chef's knives should be well balanced and fit for chopping things)? Why do we even need a "theory" for this?
Unfortunately, this is a much more general scourge that is not limited to translation. Those who can, do. Those who... well, others, make theories, which perpetuate even more theories, which in turn helps the theorists build their nice little careers - more often than not, at the taxpayers' expense. Then again, it may be just as well, or the money would be wasted on bombs and 'bama phones anyway.
There is no feedback loop here. We, practitioners, gain nothing from all those "theories" and for the most part remain blissfully (and mercifully) unaware of them. Let them remain on Mars, of wherever it is they live. We will all be better off this way.
[Edited at 2017-12-01 16:01 GMT]
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 01:43
English英语译成Spanish西班牙语
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| Here's a nice primer | Dec 1, 2017 |
John Fossey wrote: maya213 wrote:
Hello i am trying to do an essay for my MSc in Speciliased translation and I need your opinion, if it is possible.
Do you believe that skopos theory is useful for professional translstors? And why It isn't to me, because I have never heard of it so I have no use for it, at least up to now.
Hi, John:
Since there are many academic papers I could throw at you if I wanted to be snooty and talk about skopos theory, I decided to be less snooty and share something for which translation agencies took part. In short, this paper (it's long, but just skim to the juicy parts!) should be more palatable to translators who don't particularly care about the academic side of translation.
Here it is! http://pure.au.dk/portal/files/7795/Professional_Translators__Establishment_of_Skopos.pdf
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 01:43
English英语译成Spanish西班牙语
+ ...
| Oh, Wikipedia! | Dec 1, 2017 |
Daniel Frisano wrote: In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skopos_theory you can find: The functional approach has a great affinity with Skopos theory. The function of a translation depends on the knowledge, expectations, values and norms of the target readers, who are again influenced by the situation they are in and by the culture. These factors determine whether the function of the source text or passages in the source text can be preserved or have to be modified or even changed. "Passages in the source text (...) have to be modified or even changed"? Yeah, I'll try that, just for fun. I'd be out of business in no time flat.
Daniel, there are better sources for skopos theory, even critical papers. I'm sure someone in academia put together an easy primer for theory-allergic translators.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 01:43
English英语译成Spanish西班牙语
+ ...
| There's a book | Dec 1, 2017 |
maya213 wrote:
Hello thank you very much for your answer
The ssay question is a general one, but i am allowed to render it as a specific one
"how does translation theory is useful for professional translators?
Does your university have access to the latest books and academic papers on Translation Studies, or translation theories?
Have you tried this book? https://www.amazon.com/Can-Theory-Help-Translators-Translation/dp/1900650495
In writing an essay, a monograph or any kind of academic paper, it is necessary to read up on the state of the art dealing with the question. In other words, you need to see and read what has been said and published regarding your particular question. You can't just wing it or improvise it, because a) it's poor scholarship and b) it shows shoddy research methods.
A topic for an essay, paper, etc. has to be specific, challenging. Your professor should be challenging you to think and do proper research. Otherwise, he or she is not being a very good professor anyway.
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Daniel Frisano
意大利
Local time: 07:43
正式会员 (自2008)
English英语译成Italian意大利语
+ ...
Mario Chavez wrote:
I'm sure someone in academia put together an easy primer for theory-allergic translators.
And we all know how things work in academia, don't we? It's probably the most biased of all biased sources you can imagine.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 01:43
English英语译成Spanish西班牙语
+ ...
| Good analogies | Dec 1, 2017 |
Daniel Erlich wrote: The en.WP article is very poorly written. I was curious, so I found this https://www.slideshare.net/habibeh/purposesskopos-theory presentation. (caveat: it doesn't seem too much better than the WP article.) From the looks of things, this theory seems to have been created by academics, who maybe translated a literary work as their Master's thesis, that kind of thing. Not actual, day-to-day translators such as we'd find here on ProZ. I'm grasping at straws, but maybe what they're trying to describe are things like changing a baseball reference to a soccer reference? I.e., if your target reader has no idea about baseball and zero clue what an "inning" is, but they are avid soccer fans, you could change "bottom of the ninth" to "the last minute of the game" [in PT we have a perfect translation, "45 do segundo tempo"].
Daniel,
One of the myths in our profession is that academics, high in their ivory tower, write about translation in a way that is disconnected from our real-world concerns. Some do, true, but many others don't; these academics are translation professors and translators themselves who write papers from a real-world point of view.
If I were to explain skopos theory with just the paper written by Hans Vermeer, then I would be confirming the myth. But Vermeer wrote it decades ago! Other scholars have critiqued the theory and analyzed it in more practical terms. I would definitely avoid Wikipedia for a discussion or understanding of something that is more involved but not so hard to grasp for us.
By the way, Wikipedia is at it again: running out of money and begging its users to pony up 3 dollars or more to keep it running. I wish Twitter had the same trouble, so we can all be freed from the caustic gossip that seems to be infiltrating our democracies. Ah, yes, and we'd be rid of Mr. T as well.
| | | | Daniel Frisano
意大利
Local time: 07:43
正式会员 (自2008)
English英语译成Italian意大利语
+ ...
The Misha wrote: ... The function of a translation depends on the knowledge, expectations, values and norms of the target readers, who are again influenced by the situation they are in and by the culture... But, but, but...(eyes blinking rapidly)... Isn't this, like, obvious? To anyone who's been doing this for a while?
It's not obvious one bit to me. In MANY fields the function of a translation MUST BE independent from the knowledge etc.
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